This post is a "thinking out loud" post, about an unimplemented feature I'm planning.

The problem

The most often complaint I get when I release a Perinci::CmdLine -based Perl application is the huge dependencies of Perinci::CmdLine (currently Perinci::CmdLine::Lite only has 24 direct non-core dependencies, but recursively it has 98 non-core dependencies in 92 unique distributions). By the way, you can produce these numbers "very easily" using lcpan and td:

% lcpan mods -lx Perinci::CmdLine::Lite
| module                 | version | abstract                                              | dist                 | author    | rel_mtime            | is_core |
| Perinci::CmdLine::Lite | 1.812   | A Rinci/Riap-based command-line application framework | Perinci-CmdLine-Lite | PERLANCAR | 2018-05-01T08:42:19Z | 0       |
% lcpan deps Perinci::CmdLine::Lite --noinclude-core | wc -l
% lcpan deps Perinci::CmdLine::Lite --noinclude-core -R | wc -l
% lcpan deps Perinci::CmdLine::Lite --noinclude-core -R --flatten | \
    td select module | lcpan mod2dist | td select value | sort | uniq | wc -l

Sort of ironic because years ago I used to mock Moose 's high number of dependencies and avoid it like the plague, and then ending up creating the same situation with my own distribution. Correction: a much worse situation than the current Moose:

% lcpan mods -lx Moose
| module | version | abstract                              | dist  | author | rel_mtime            | is_core |
| Moose  | 2.2010  | A postmodern object system for Perl 5 | Moose | ETHER  | 2018-02-16T22:01:37Z | 0       |
% lcpan deps Moose --noinclude-core | wc -l
% lcpan deps Moose --noinclude-core -R | wc -l
% lcpan deps Moose --noinclude-core -R --flatten | \
    td select module | lcpan mod2dist | td select value | sort | uniq | wc -l

I arrange the modules into many distributions because I am trying to keep things modular. So when I only need a specific subset of functionality, I don't have to pull the whole thing (and along with it its large list of dependencies). Maybe I went overboard? Maybe. Nevertheless.

The high number of dependencies presents an inconvenience and annoyance when users want to install my application, especially since CPAN clients like cpan and cpanm default to testing distributions before installing them.

One solution: Perinci::CmdLine::Inline

One solution I created for this problem is Perinci::CmdLine::Inline (PC:Inline) which basically "pre-assembles" the application with sort of a "mini", "embedded" Perinci::CmdLine during distribution build time, so that when a user installs the application she doesn't need to get Perinci::CmdLine anymore. This also has another benefit of faster application startup time due to the "pre-assembling" thingy. But this pre-assembling has some downsides too. Whenever I create a new version of PC:Inline, I will have to rebuild all the applications again. PC:Inline also does not (read: will not, because of the lack of Riap layer) have all the features of a proper Perinci::CmdLine. I use PC:Inline only for simpler applications that need to be very light (has no non-core dependencies, or starts fast) like hr, wordlist, zodiac-of.

Another solution: fatpacking, datapacking

Another solution is fatpacking or datapacking. I've tried this in the past with the pause script, and it works rather well. Except that when it comes to packaging the CPAN distribution as a Debian package, the Debian policy forbids "convenience copies" of code.

Past solution: lumping

Yet another solution which I've tried in the past is what I call "lumping": in a lump distribution I include modules from other distributions (the dependencies) but leave them unindexed. For example, I created a distribution called Perinci-CmdLine-Any-Lumped that contains modules from Perinci-CmdLine-Any (Perinci::CmdLine::Any) as well as all its recursive pure-perl non-core dependencies, like Data::Sah, Data::Sah::Coerce, and so on. After installing just one lump distribution, a user will have perhaps 100+ extra (but "hidden") modules from various distributions on her system. The perl interpreter will see those extra modules fine. The modules are "hidden" only in the sense that the original distributions of those modules are not listed as installed (because they aren't).

I abandoned this solution because it feels really dirty. The extra modules lumped into the lump distribution are actually "orphan" modules because the lump distribution does not publicly confess that it includes the modules. And I'm pretty sure lump distributions are not good candidates for Debian perl packages, but it's okay.

Another proposed solution: clumping

This post will describe another solution which I'm thinking of (with an equally stupid name so if the idea ended up being really stupid, the name would have already fitted): clumping.

A clump distribution is named "Clump-SOMETHING" and will contain modules from several other distributions (called "source distributions"). The purpose of a clump distribution is to package several other distributions as a single distribution for the purpose of reducing the number of dependencies for the end-user.

For example, a clump distribution called "Clump-Data-Sah" will contain modules from Data-Sah as well as Data-Sah-Coerce, Data-Sah-Format, and so on.


To help build this distribution, a Dist::Zilla plugin will be created and used: DZP:Clump. To use this plugin, we list the source distributions that we want to include:


The plugin will gather module files from the source distributions as well as merge the dependencies from the source distributions into the dependencies for the clump distribution.

Dependencies that end up being in the clump distribution can be "netted out". For example, Data-Sah depends on Data::Sah::Coerce which is in the Data-Sah-Coerce distribution which is also another source distribution in the clump, so this dependency now does not need to be specified in Clump-Data-Sah.

Clumping and module versions

The version number of a module inside the clump distribution will be the original version joined by ".0". So for example, if the original version number of module M1 is "0.001" then M1's version number in the clump distribution is "0.001.0". If M2's original version is "0.1.2" then M2's version in the clump is "" and so on. As far as perl concerns the two version numbers in each case are the same:

version->parse("0.001") == version->parse("0.001.0")
version->parse("0.1.2") == version->parse("")

The module version will have to be checked to satisfy the above relationship and if it does not, a new release will need to be made in the source distribution first to remedy this. For example, M3's original version is 0.02. If we append ".0" to it to become "0.02.0" then the new version will be less than the original version:

version->parse("0.02") > version->parse("0.02.0")
# because 0.02   is 0.020
# and     0.02.0 is 0.002.0

To include M3 in the clump, we will need to make a new release of M3 in the original source distribution first, say of version 0.030. Then M3 version 0.030 can now be included in the clump, as version 0.030.0.

Yes, this means the clump distribution will contain different version numbers. Which is usually not recommended for a "normal" Perl distribution but is appropriate here.

Clumping and the PAUSE indexer

When the clump distribution is released, PAUSE will index the clump distribution and now modules included in the clump will be indexed as belonging to the clump distribution instead of their original distribution.

When user installs one of these modules, she will be getting it (and automatically a lot of other modules too) from the clump distribution, thus reducing the number of distributions she needs to install to satisfy all the dependencies of an application.

Developing modules that are included in clumps

Ideally, modules are still developed in its original source distribution, e.g. Data::Sah::Coerce in Data-Sah-Coerce. When I want to release a new version of Data::Sah::Coerce, I can just release a new version of Data-Sah-Coerce. Now the module will be indexed by PAUSE as belonging to the new Data-Sah-Coerce.

As more and more modules are being "unclumped" as new releases of the source distributions come along, the level of inconvenience to end-users will once again increase. To remedy this, from time to time I can release a new clump distribution again that contains newer "snapshots" of modules.

This is the reason why version of modules in the clump is being kept the same (albeit with extra ".0"): so version bump in the original source distribution will be able to "eclipse" the clumped version on CPAN later. Even when the original distribution bumps using an extra subversion, e.g. 0.001 to 0.001.1 it will still eclipse the clumped version. The next clumped version will be

Clumping vs lumping

This clump solution is cleaner than the lumping solution because in the former case, no modules are "hidden". Basically clumping is lumping, but the included modules are "acknowledged" and properly indexed. The $orig_version . ".0" thing is really the only novel element here. Because the modules are now not hidden, their dependencies must now also be handled.

As to Debian packaging, the source distributions and not the clump distribution are the ones that will be packaged so there should not be an issue with "convenience copies" or "bundling".



  1. grinnz · May 8

    Why is appending .0 to the version necessary? For versions that are originally decimal numbers, it awkwardly changes versioning methods without bumping the major version. If PAUSE reindexes the same version to the new distribution fine, it should not care if the version string is different.


  2. grinnz · May 8

    To add: You cannot upload a distribution with the same filename again, but there’s no hard restriction on different distributions with the same version, it’s only a question of how to get the modules within the new upload indexed correctly.

    Liked by 1 person

    • perlancar · May 8

      If a module from a newer distribution is uploaded with the same version, PAUSE will refuse to index. But good point, perhaps this can be resolved by PAUSE module permission fiddling followed by reindexing. It can be argued that doing this is less painful than having to deal with version number gotchas.


      • grinnz · May 8

        If you really need to change the version string without changing the version number, you could check first whether the version is a decimal number (this is a simple check: leading v or multiple decimal points == version tuple, otherwise decimal number); and if so, add just a trailing zero. Then your new version will still be numerically equivalent and stringwise different, but not change schemes.

        Liked by 1 person

        • perlancar · May 8

          Looks like PAUSE indexer will accept new upload of the same version, as long as the it’s stringwise different. But it will refuse to index decreasing version.

          So for both decimal number (1.0) as well as multiple dotted version (1.0.0) we can simply add “0” instead of just “.0”.


  3. perlancar · May 8

    Note to self: Clumping distributions that have different authors and/or licenses can get complicated.


  4. Michael R. Davis · May 17

    I would like to offer a solution: CPAN add a package repository (i.e. Yum Repo with RPMs, DEB Repo, etc). If CPAN cannot make all of the packages then the CPAN testers complain and log bugs. I personally include RPM SPEC files for all of my distributions and I never have deployment issues with my packages. rpmbuild -ta DBIx-Array-?.??.tar.gz

    Note: An RPM spec file can build multiple packages from a single distribution so your clumped distribution could build dozens of packages all with the correct dependencies so it just works if you require the the ones that you need.


    • perlancar · May 20

      Thanks for commenting. Packaging CPAN distributions does offer some convenience e.g. faster installation because the packages are pre-built. But this is a solution “of another layer” that cannot be universally applied because not all Perl installations use RPM/DEB/other OS packaging, for example perlbrew-based installations. CPAN distributions do install like OS packages in that dependencies are automatically downloaded and installed, it’s just that usually installation is (significantly) slower because of building and testing phases. My clumping scheme is basically a way to reduce the number of dependency distributions that need to be installed for faster installation.


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